This is a cross-posting with Aaron Strout of Citizen Marketer 2.0.
On last week’s Quick-n-Dirty podcast
show, my co-host, Jennifer Leggio and
I spent some time talking about Twitter wannabe, Plurk, and why
it never really took off (see Compete’s comparative numbers). In fact,
in my wrap up post, I went so far as to say that Plurk “sucked.” Well,
our friend and listener, Deb Robison, hopped on the show’s live chat and told us not so fast.
In fact, Deb argued that not only was Plurk not dead but rather that
there were a number of reasons why she actually liked Plurk more than
Twitter.
This conversation of course piqued my curiosity so I threw the idea
out to Deb that we do a “point / counterpoint” on Plurk vs. Twitter.
We agreed to divide and conquer with me writing the intro, both of us
creating a list of “pro’s and con’s” and then Deb doing the wrap up.
Since Deb gets the last word in this discussion, I have to say, she’s
done a great job getting me to think more about my harsh criticism of
Plurk. That’s not to say that I will jump back in and start using
Plurk again but rather that I might take a “kinder and gentler”
approach when I bring it up.
out to Deb that we do a “point / counterpoint” on Plurk vs. Twitter.
We agreed to divide and conquer with me writing the intro, both of us
creating a list of “pro’s and con’s” and then Deb doing the wrap up.
Since Deb gets the last word in this discussion, I have to say, she’s
done a great job getting me to think more about my harsh criticism of
Plurk. That’s not to say that I will jump back in and start using
Plurk again but rather that I might take a “kinder and gentler”
approach when I bring it up.
To make this a little more interactive, I did add my comments on Deb’s
lists in brackets — I encouraged her to do the same (hers are in gray
type):
lists in brackets — I encouraged her to do the same (hers are in gray
type):
Deb’s Plurk Pro’s
- threaded conversations easy to follow, seems to develop
conversation better, more in-depth [AWS - fair point. Although
there are a few third party apps that do this for Twitter like Mike Langford's TweetWorks] Deb: yes, but is TweetWorks widely known?
Oddly, one of the best apps for following threaded Twitter
conversations is the app-formerly-known-as TwiterFon, now called echofon, but
is only available on the iPhone and iPod Touch, so it too languishes
in obscurity. - consistency of group builds
relationships greeting, familiarity, connections- asking about
personal/work issues - timeline and response mechanism
prevent missing a conversation you were participating
in [Aaron: Twitter could benefit from this although
hashtags make an attempt to replicate] Deb: but you still have to do a
search for a hashtag potentially taking you away from your Twitter
stream- obviously not the case if you use Tweetdeck, or Tweetgrid, but
both have limitations- there is often a lag time. - easier to decide who to
friend-can see them participate in other conversations and how they
are connected to the people you already know - groups formed around communities
within plurk- plurkshops, plurk weightloss, recipe
exchange - constantly adding new features
(where does the money come from?) - can post from other services
such as ping.fm and posterous - private conversations take place
among a group of people [Aaron: in my mind, this is Plurk's biggest advantage over
Twitter. I've heard that this functionality is underway on Twitter but
right now, it's frustratingly absent] - **Has anyone noticed my high
level of restraint here? I never mention that- Plurk rarely goes down.
A lot of folks migrated to Plurk during the season of the FAIL Whale
last year, but moved back once things stabilized. [Aaron: great
point]
**Deb:
I have added #9 as an afterthought here, can’t believe I forgot it for
the original list **
I have added #9 as an afterthought here, can’t believe I forgot it for
the original list **
Deb’s Plurk Con’s
- no community
evangelism [Aaron
- where's Robert Scoble when you need him?] - karma- it’s only a novelty, not
sure why people focus on it so much [Aaron - as I mentioned in the
podcast, this is the thing I hate most about Plurk] - hard to use on a PC- mouse
trackball makes it easier to scroll side to side - no SMS (IM though)
- only a couple of mobile apps
—————
Aaron’s Twitter Pro’s
Aaron’s Twitter Pro’s
- Sheer numbers: Whether it’s 20
million or 40 million (yes, there is a question as to how many of
these folks are actually active), many of my friends are here en
masse. Deb: yes, but the numbers are
overwhelming, some days I see people in my stream and think “who the
hell is that and why am I following them? Or a friend doesn’t show up
in my stream for days. They were active, but for some reason only some
Tweeps show up in the stream. I am sure volume is the
issue. - Simplicity: yes, it took a
little while to figure out Twitter but it was a whole lot easier to
navigate than the land of weird looking animals with bones sticking
out of their necks. Deb: again, see my argument about karma-
who cares? Are you subject to nightmares after seeing Plurk critters?
It’s about the conversation. - Third party apps: due to
Twitter’s open architecture, I’ve loved the apps that have been
developed around Twitter. Deb: yep, the Plurk people
missed the boat on this one. Although, I don’t understand why the
Twitter folks couldn’t seem to innovate, Plurk constantly adds new
features which seem to play the role of a third party
app. - Low barrier to
following/un-following: unlike Facebook, I like the fact that
following or un-following someone on Twitter has very little stigma. I
can “try” someone’s stream if I like and then just as easily un-follow
them if I don’t find value. Deb: never had any problem
unfollowing people on Plurk or Twitter, but I notice some people
really get upset when unfollowed. What’s the big deal? You have a
thousand followers and you are going to miss me?? - Straightforward stream: while
one might argue that this is the biggest strength and weakness of
Twitter, I like the fact that I can dip in and out of the stream as I
choose. If I want to update and walk away for a day, there’s nobody
waiting on the other side for me to finish my threaded
conversation. Deb: yeah, but I have had to come in
mid-stream when a conversation is going on and sort through the tweets
to get to the origination of the convo. That is when I reach for
TwitterFon (echofon).
Aaron’s Twitter Con’s
- Spam: with mass adoption comes
opportunity. With opportunity comes scam artists. Unfortunately, this
has become a huge pain in the ass when it comes to determining who to
follow back. Deb: I did not
have to deal with a spammer until a couple of weeks ago. It was
sending me through the roof. I experienced
“SpamRage.” - Threaded conversations: while
there are third party apps that do this, it would be nice to have this
“in-line” on Twitter. - No group DMs: as I commented
above, there are many a time when I would love to be able to send a
group DM. For instance, I group blog with a number of friends over at
Big Papelbon and
it would be nice to be able to send a comment to all the contributors
via DM all at one time. - Hard to follow lots of users:
yes, I do use Tweetdeck which makes following discrete groups easier
but it would be nice if Twitter had Friendfeed like capabilities to
pre-segment people into groups. Based on Deb’s “Plurk pro’s” above, it
sounds like you can do this on Plurk. Deb: you can create groups and/or private
conversations sent to individuals of your choice on Plurk, but I
rarely do it. Tweetdeck crashes constantly, so I don’t use it
anymore.
Gee, I feel like David Brooks and
Gail Collins of the New York Times’ The Conversation blog where the opposing parties exchange
niceties about summer vacation, then give their POVs. The Conversation
ends nicely and we politely agree to disagree. That having been said,
while I wouldn’t use the word “sucks” about Twitter, I don’t like it
as much as Plurk, but feel I have to use it for my work- held hostage
by a little bird and a whale. Thanks for the lovely discourse Aaron
and I hope your summer on the Cape didn’t leave you with too bad of a
sunburn. [Aaron: Deb, this has been a blast. And as you
know, I love doing the point / counterpoint thing. Normally I spar
weekly with Jennifer on the Quick-n-Dirty but I always welcome
engaging with other smart folks like yourself.]
I feel like Twitter is for announcing and Plurk is for conversations. In fact, I believe Ed Dale from the 30 day challenge says something like this.
One of the way plurk matches real world interaction is via history. It’s easy to see what someone said yesterday or the day before or even the year before. Through a person’s history, we gain a sense of who they are as a being.
Twitter is about NOW, this moment. What I’m doing today – not yesterday or last year but NOW.
In this way, Plurk leads to a deeper level of relationship and conversation. People come to Plurk to have this history and deeper relationship. Some people leave Plurk because they can’t keep up with the depth and breadth of conversation.
Ok I’m going to reserve my comments to Plurk, because all I do is yammer on about Twitter
I was indeed a HUGE Plurk evangelist last summer during the great Twitter Outage (because that was the ONLY time Twitter was ever down, right?). I loved the threaded conversations, and still do.
But I honestly think Plurk was aimed at teens, and an exodus of Twitter users happened to crash the party. Quite honestly, the main reason why I stopped using Plurk was because my network migrated back to Twitter when it came back up.
And really that’s the bigger takeaway here, IMO, is this really about the tools, or where our networks are? Remember that last year we were all complaining about Twitter, but that’s where everyone stayed. Identica, Kwippy, Jaiku and whatever 10 other microblogging ‘competitors’ popped up, but everyone stayed with Twitter…cause everyone stayed with Twitter. I remember Beth Harte and Amber Naslund talking about how they still loved Plurk, but their networks weren’t there, so they decided to follow their networks. I did too.
I will say this, I don’t think Plurk has very many ‘casual’ users. Those that are still around are big time fans. There’s no inbetween, you either love it or hate it!
Thanks Claudia & Mack! I have two comments- I do feel like twitter is more about broadcast, less about conversation, but some sort of relationships are developing there, just not in the depth that I enjoy on Plurk.
Mack, while I was writing this, I did think it was more about the micro-blog format and does it work for conversation/building relationships. Clearly it does and will be around for a while- facebook status updates, friendfeed, cross-posting from ping.fm or posterous all make micro-blogging easy. And for some reason about 140 characters seems to do it for all of us.
-Deb
I have blathered about this a bit before, so I’ll add my two cents. Although, not sure how much new information I can provide.
When I left Twitter (left being relative, because I am still there, but not in a significant way) I had what was, at the time, a decently large following of around 700 people (that is small now, but was pretty decent then), and I interacted all day every day. The Fail Whale is what brought some of my friends to plurk and I followed.
Since then most/many of them have worked their way back to Twitter, and I did as well. However what I discovered, in addition to all of the point made above, was that Plurk was a far better and more reliable resource for getting answers to questions for me. I had a much smaller network, but they were far more willing to contribute when I asked questions.
I even challenged my Twitter network, taunting them about the fact that my tiny Plurk socnet was answering my questions at a rate of about 5 to 1 over Twitter. This did not produce better (or worse) results.
Ultimately, I believe the closeness I have within my Plurk network, because of the conversational nature of the interface is what makes this difference. As such I believe that if I had a network of equal size in both places, and I participated equally on both, my results would be far better with Plurk and that would be teh socnet I chose (if I were going to limit myself to one).
However, given that Plurk does not have the numbers twitters does or the SMS component (which I think is HUGE)… I will continue to use both services.
Shutting up now
I know it’s hard to go back and forth between the two. Somedays one network gets more attention than the other.
I was already a user of Twitter, but wasn’t really seeing any use for it other than announcing information, proclaiming a company’s importance, or someone informing me they have decided to eat a sandwich. I found Plurk while I was looking for marketing “conversation groups” so I could learn more about marketing beyond the books and classroom.
Plurk is all about conversation and *meaningful* interaction. If someone posts a product/company announcement without any form of follow-up or substance, no one replies to it, makes mention of it, “re-plurks” it, or gives it any consideration. Twitter users will happily repost any junk, while Plurk requires substance.
I think it goes back to something Claudia said earlier, Twitter seems more in the NOW, so broadcasting seems to happen pretty easily. With the plurk timeline, you can go back and look for threads you may have participated in and jump back in.
Deb:
I can’t really take an objective stance here. I just don’t put much cred in Plurk. I tried it at least a handful of times but couldn’t really figure it out. And I know I the cartoonish images shouldn’t matter, but I just found them annoying!
Plus, in the end, most of my online network is on Twitter. It’s much easier to justify spending my time there (the “hostage” effect
)
Similar comment cross-posted to Aaron’s blog
Bryan | @BryanPerson
Bryan- Thank you for your candor. That is all.
Puzzled as to why Twitter and Plurk are compared…? Just don’t understand the rationale for the comparison…